If your goal is to find better access to ammo, I would definitely go with the 270wsm. It requires 6.6 MOA correction in a 10 mph wind. Like its siblings, the .270 WSM has gained a steady following for a variety of reasons. For the 300 WSM with the 210 Berger to equal the external ballistics, it needs to have a minimum muzzle velocity of at least 3,100+ fps. Probably less these days than in the past, but they had their following. The following ammunition cartridge ballistics information and chart can be used to approximately compare .270 WSM Winchester Short Magnum vs 7mm-08 Remington ammo rounds. Comparing the .270 with the 7mm Remington magnum is like comparing grits and white cornmeal. And I wouldn't shorten the barrel of either caliber, they both need at least 24 in. So I have been looking through the interwebs trying to find negatives and positives of both calibers. bullet. We spend hundreds (if not thousands) of dollars trying to improve the accuracy of our LR rifles. atleast you have the option of going heavy for larger game on bullets. Yes the 30 cal delivers a little more energy. If you run them at short mag lengths, they both suffer greatly. projectiles fast enough to match the ballistics of the 7mm Rem Mag. IMHO you can do that if you want an inferior rifle . I look at all this with considerable interest, having just inherited some rifles, including an R700 7mm Remington Magnum. Bottom line...Winchester is a fine action to build on IMHO. Perhaps you … Not sure where the 7mm is headed, although it is probably the best of the WSM's at least on paper. But this doesn't tell the whole story. Superior ballistics and enough weight and velocity to take anything in the 48 states. The 270 WSM has the power to take down an elk at 800 yds. Assuming both rifles are accurate, I would tend to lean towards the 270 WSM. for the Win. These claims are valid if the short magnum cartridges are fired in 24 inch barrels, the same length as the barrels of most 7mm Rem. Performance The following ammunition cartridge ballistics information and chart can be used to approximately compare .270 WSM Winchester Short Magnum vs 7mm-08 Remington ammo rounds. Why would you rule out the 270 WSM for long range?? The 165 gr. Berger VLD @ 2,900 fps has a velocity of 1.621 fps and 1,225 ft/lbs of energy. You can compensate for a bullet with a lower BC by launching it at a higher velocity. .07 difference in bore and 15 grs. In my opinion, one of the drawbacks of all three of the .270s is their twist rate. Re: 300 WSM or 7mm WSM +1 what Steve said. Being a handloader gives you a lot more bullet weight selections for the 7mm than for the 270. Again, the above is for comparative information purposes only, and you should consult the exact ballistics for the particular .270 WSM Winchester Short Magnum or 7mm-08 Remington cartridge you're looking at purchasing. On average you’ll need a heavier 7mm bullet which will produce more recoil IN AN ULTRALIGHT rifle like the one I’m putting together for this project. and run both the 270 WSM with the 165 gr. Bottom line for me: If the OP's rifle in 270 WSM is a shooter, then he need look no further. However, the distance from the case head to the datum line on the shoulder is longer for the 7WSM, preventing accidental chambering or firing of the .284" 7mm bullet in .270 WSM's .277" bore. Matrix at 3,100 fps. It is more available than the .270 Weatherby Magnum has ever been. The difference in energy delivered at 1,000 yds is negligible at best. The 300 WSM with the 210 drops below the required minimum velocity at around 700 yds. It has a rebated rim, bottleneck casing with a 1:9.5 twist on a large rifle magnum primer. While I would be inclined to keep both, I am leaning towards selling one to fund the others build. Foundry Outdoors is your trusted home for buying archery, camping, fishing, hunting, shooting sports, and outdoor gear online. I think you can get 160gr Nosler partitions in 270 WSM as well. IMO the 270 wsm offers you nothing in the performance potential department compared to a 7mm mag. We have a variety of deals on Rifle Ammo, Handgun Ammo, Shotgun Ammo & Rimfire Ammo, as well as ammo for target practice, plinking, hunting, or shooting competitions. As illustrated in the chart, .270 WSM Winchester Short Magnum rounds - on average - achieve a velocity of about 3240 feet per second (fps) while 7mm-08 Remington rounds travel at a velocity of 2830 fps. With 150gr bullets the 7mm wsm and 270wsm are going to be identical in terms of power at the muzzle; however the 270 bullet will most likely have a higher B.C. is by reloading a few bullets. 4. Absolutely. At 800 yards, I would definitely side with the .308 over the .270. With the whims of the marketplace it may or may not stay readily available. SAUM vs WSM. By David E. Petzal. to 230 gr. As sjvcon mentioned, plenty of good charts out there. Even then you could sell one and have a smith build you a semi custom off the one you keep. That being the case, I'd recommend a new stock, new barrel (Brux. Certainly there is more aftermarket support for the Remy and it's clones ... but why be like all the other guys/gals??? Matrix in .277 caliber has a .65 BC. I think the accuracy would suffer compared to a 26" barrel. It's easy! In another 20 years the 300 WSM will surpass the 300 Win Mag in sales, maybe sooner. Due to the shoulder safety design, the neck is very short. The decision for which round is better for a given application should be made with complete information, and this article simply serves as a comparative guide, not the final say. Like the .270 Weatherby Magnum—released 60 years prior to the .270 WSM—it betters the velocity of the .270 Winchester, but I’m not certain that the increased velocity is necessarily required. It is 1-10. The 7mm WSM was tested for a time among target shooters worldwide. Before the .270 WSM, the most notable cartridge with performance exceeding that of the .270 Winchester, in the .277 bore size, was the .270 Weatherby Magnum. I just received in trade yesterday a M70 in 300wsm. Here is a link to an article written by Bryan Litz of Berger Bullets that addresses your problem in greater detail: http://www.longrangehunting.com/articles/30-caliber-1.php. The case is based off a .300 WSM with a narrowed neck to fit .284 inch bullets on a .321 inch neck and the parent case is the .404 Jeffery. The 7mm WSM provides a little more energy down range with ballistics very close to the 270 WSM. In the same is true for the WSM. out there. Shooting 270 WSM and 7 Rem Mag edit b 1_2-18-2016 Vito Monopoli. do you reload? The Win model 70 is a great action. 5. Having said that, the reason guys shoot 30's is the option to shoot a heavy bullet that bucks the wind and delivers good energy. Firearms, Long Range Shooting, and Reloading. Uh ... heck yes. The fact that neither 30 cal bullet will have enough velocity to even open up cannot be overlooked. 2. The main use for the 270 wsm case in the F Class seen is to neck up the 270 wsm case to 7mm, So you would have a 7/270case NOT a 7mmwsm. For more detailed ballistics information please refer to the exact round in question or contact the manufacturer for the pertinent information. Our website lists special deals on 9mm Ammo, 10mm Ammo, 45-70 Ammo, 6.5 Creedmoor ammo, 300 Blackout Ammo, 10mm Ammo, 5.56 Ammo, Underwood Ammo, Buffalo Bore Ammo and more special deals on bulk ammo. In all my research, only the 300 RUM has enough powder to move 210 gr. For two different caliber bullets to have roughly the same external ballistics, they must both have the same BC and be launched at the same velocity. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif And they don't have a belt. Both of these cartridges can be used for the same shooting applications and we think that whichever you go with, maybe even both, you are going to be happy with your choice. The 7mm WSM and 7mm Remington Magnum are best suited for the exact same hunting situations. Both are great options, but if you have the ability to build a great gun for deer AND larger animals, Go with the .30 and do not limit yourself. Does this sacrifice distance or accuracy? Furthermore, the muzzle energy of a .270 WSM Winchester Short Magnum round averages out to 3170 ft-lb, while a 7mm-08 Remington round averages out to about 2450 ft-lb. Many target shooters found this to be detrimental to extreme accuracy. The .270 WSM is a good cartridge but, honestly, it is a very small player in terms of market share. Or shoot a 10 shot group at an 800 yard target and see what the groups look like. Do I sell both and buy a Remington? sell both and get a sendero. Down range a 7-08 is right with that 270 wsm. bullet and the 300 WSM with any bullet you choose. 6. Please click the above links to take a look at all of the .270 WSM Winchester Short Magnum and 7mm-08 Remington ammo we have in stock and ready to ship, and let us know any parting thoughts in the comment section below. The main reason people build on the Remington and Savage Actions is that they are tubular, and therefore easier to chuck up on a lathe. Sign up for a new account in our community. Do people use the M70 to build lightweight/longrange builds. It's a shooter right out of the box! You will be launching a lighter bullet so shot placement will become more critical, but getting the bullet there is still job #1. I want a 270wsm but if I had to pick would go with the 300. As far as LR capabilities go for a given caliber, the two things I look at are: (1) How much wind deflection is there for this load at 600, 800. For moose you may want to look at 150 or even 160 gr. But if you are doing a custom build, you could repipe it for 7mm, which is a heck of a round for BC. Both have been popular from their inceptions. The 270 wsm and the 300wsm are the same case size just differing bullet size necks (the 300wsm case is also used necking down to 7/300wsm round same as 7/270wsm). With the proper barrel and scope it has excellent longer range potential. Ballistics Comparison for 270 The 300 Win Mag and 300 WSM can get close with a 210 Berger, but the 7mm still outshines to 30's. Loading ... 7mm Rem Mag vs buck/ Roebuck hunting 2017/ Bockjagd 2017 - Duration: 7:15. Cases extracted from my 7mm RM have a tiny scratch on them, making it easy to count how many times they've been chambered. Combat Hapkido, Karate, Boxing, Weight Lifting, Shooting, Hunting, Tinkering with Guns, Fishing, Etc. Rifle Specs listed below... Congratulation Michael Langston on yet another successful Milk Jug Challenge. The 270 WSM should be able to run the 165 gr. I do have reloading capabilities. Terminal ballistics need to be addressed as well. Matrix @ 3,100 fps still has a velocity of 1,800 fps and 1,181 ft/lbs of energy. The end result is the same. The 300 WSM running the 210 gr. In the 270 wsm you are burning a bunch of powder in expensive brass to push a bullet out at high velocity to have the bullet just dump it all quick. The 300 WSM with the 180 drops below the required minimum velocity at 800 yds. ( seems like this is an oxymoron), 6. ballistics. As such, the following is for comparative information purposes only and should not be used to make precise predictions of the trajectory, performance, or true ballistics of any particular .270 WSM Winchester Short Magnum or 7mm-08 Remington rounds for hunting, target shooting, plinking, or any other usage. The 7mm WSM provides a little more energy down range with ballistics very close to the 270 WSM. If you handload, you can get load your 280 to within 75-100 fps or so of the 7mm WSM. If you like what you see with (good) factory loads you can usually improve with bedding and hand loads. So a .270 WSM Winchester Short Magnum round exits the barrel with kinetic energy equal to the energy required for linear vertical displacement of 3170 pounds through a one foot distance, while a 7mm-08 Remington round exiting the barrel has energy equal to the amount required to displace 2450 pounds over the same one foot distance. Prefer to use one rifle or the other without having to go too far into basically building a whole completely different gun. It's defeating to purpose. Berger VLD @ 3,050 fps has a velocity of 1,572 fps and 988 ft/lbs of energy. 4. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/cool.gif. BTW the 270 WSM vs. the 7mm WSM, is about as valid and arguement but even less so! Remington claims that the ballistics of the 7mm SAUM equal those of the popular 7mm Rem. if they are 8" or less keep it. Bartlain, Krieger, etc) and a new trigger on a tuned up Winchester action. The 7mm WSM is going to have a tough time of it as the 7mm RM is established. 2. 3. ; and (2) At what distance does the bullet drop below the magical 1,800 fps? Please note, the following information reflects the estimated average ballistics for each caliber and does not pertain to a particular manufact The only reason to even look at a Rem 700 over other actions is the aftermarket parts. I can usually find 300 and 270 WSM ammo at any store here in SC AK, but I can't say the same thing about 7mm WSM. The 165 gr. Generally speaking, the higher the muzzle energy, the higher the stopping power. I have yet to find a bullet with a combo of BC and velocity shot from a 300 WSM that comes close to what the magnums in 6.5, .277 or 7mm can do. Comments, opinions and insight please and thank you. rifles. We offer a 100% Authenticity Guarantee on all products sold on our website. Since the OP said he doesn't reload, and could if he had too, suggests he is not wanting to reload unless he has to. And also assuming this one bullet shoots good out of his gun... Look at more practical yardages like 500 yards, the 300wsm using your info has 200 more FT/lbs of energy. A decently hand loaded 270 Win will out do R-P and Norma 7MM Mag rounds. For Deer (mulies and coues)/ Elk and maybe one day getting to Alaska for a caribou hunt, which caliber would be the best for all around? Might be wrong on that. Yes the 270 WSM will kill moose dead. Re: 270 WSM vs 300 WSM [ Re: alwaysoutdoors ] #14563765 02/11/20 The 300 WSM will hit harder, but lots of men have been taking elk with a regular Win 270 for years. Please note, the following information reflects the estimated average ballistics for each caliber and does not pertain to a particular manufacturer, From the data we have looked at in the 7mm-08 vs .270 comparison, we feel pretty confident in stating that these cartridges can do what they were designed for. Federal premium and Winchester supreme both make factory rounds like my homemades with accubonds in 140. 30-06 will also work well if elk is in the mix. Matrix from the 270 WSM still has enough velocity to open up and kill game at 1,000 yds. both national and international. If you do, they recommend a 1-8 twist barrel which is probably only achievable with a custom barrel. Mag. Bottom line is that the longer the barrel (to a point) the more complete powder burn you get ... so the more energy is imparted on the bullet. 1000 yds? it is all about the wind. I would not shorten the barrel to 20". That is affected by the bullet used (grains, BC, etc.). Again ... a lot of it is due to more 'smiths focusing on the tubular actions due to the ease of working on them. Cartridge Type: Rifle Height: 2.1" Width: 0.535" Average FPS: 3134 Average Energy: 3314 Average Gr: 152 Recoil: 2.06 Power Rank: 4.76 of 20 The 7mm Winchester Short Magnum (WSM) was designed in 2001 by Winchester Repeating Arms Company and Browning Arms Company. They will still punch holes in paper beyond that, but terminal ballistics becomes very questionable. The only way to get those velocities is to launch it from a 300 RUM. While this should not be the deciding factor, simply stepping up to the 175 gr. Commercially available ammo suggests the 300 WSM has more options with better ballistics. In shorter barrels, performance declines dramatically. Hunting, fishing, Hunting, weight lifting, martial arts, Hunting, archery, long range shooting, hunting, anything outdoors. As a rule of thumb, when it comes to hunting, muzzle energy is what many hunters look at when deciding on what caliber of firearm / ammunition to select. Matrix VLD (it's not listed on their website, so you need to ask for it). True .270 WSM Winchester Short Magnum and 7mm-08 Remington ballistics information can vary widely from the displayed information, and it is important to understand that the particular characteristics of a given round can make a substantive difference in its true performance. So can 7mm RM cases. Hunting, fishing, back packing and family. Mag. Caliber: Bullet Weight: Overall Cartridge Length: Muzzle Velocity: Trajectory at 300 yds(100yds zero) Muzzle Energy(Ft. Superior ballistics and enough weight and velocity to take anything in the 48 states. In the WSM .270 fans found a short, powerful, efficient round that could be housed in compact, lightweight short-action rifles and which edged closer to 7mm Rem. Find a ballistic calculator: http://www.longrangehunting.com/forums/f19/ballistics-programs-web-based-downloadable-9647/. Lol. and exactly the same claim is made for the 7mm WSM. That is to say, .270 WSM Winchester Short Magnum bullets travel 3.7 times the speed of a 737 airplane at cruising speed, while 7mm-08 Remington bullets travel 3.2 times that same speed. Lbs.) Re: 7mm mag vs 7mm wsm ?? The WSM chamberings are proving to be slightly more accurate as well. Both are excellent cartridges. The 7mm WSM d… Is the M70 action worthy of building on? Please note, the following information reflects the estimated average ballistics for each caliber and does not pertain to a particular manufacturer, bullet weight, or jacketing type. Glitzy velocities don't mean much, and you have a great choice among 7mm bullets. It requires only 5.2 MOA correction in a 10 mph wind. that is why I went with the lighter 270 in 130. You need to be a member in order to leave a comment. For good measure, run a 7mm Rem Mag with a 180 gr, Berger. Winchesters are great guns, don't let anyone tell you different. Bottom line for me: If the OP's rifle in 270 WSM is a shooter, then he need look no further. Be careful about sizing up 270 WSM's to make 7mm WSM brass as the 7mm's headspace is longer. Sounded to me like he wants to "build" one of these (or another action) up. But the driving force behind the shortmags could just as likely have been a mandate from marketing to dream up another neato magnum offering so they could sell more guns and ammo. Matrix in .277 cal will tip the scales yet again in favor of the 270 WSM. It will do just about anything. However, if the WSMs are loaded properly they will more than do the job but ya gotta put some powder in 'em. in bullet weight on the heavy side, and in … If either of these are shooters (under 1 MOA in my book), then you need look no further. I am not a .270 Win fan, but I like my .270 WSM over the 300 WSM. As far as wind drift goes, they are both going to be pretty close depending on how the comparison goes. Your 300 WSM will hit harder, but it will not buck the wind as well - and beyond 400 - 500 yds. I'd look to chamber in 7 wsm, because the .284 has some great characteristics. Both the 270 WSM and the 7mm Mag will outperform anything the 300 WSM can spit out. Obviously if you compare a 165 .277 cal and a 165 .308 cal, the .277 has a better BC. One way to think about this is as such: a foot-pound is a unit of energy equal to the amount of energy required to raise a weight of one pound a distance of one foot. Not necessarilly stay with what he's got. But you can still find plenty of stocks, triggers, etc. Just not in that order! Please email us if you have questions about any of our product listings. The 270 WSM seems popular as there was no significant 270 mag. The closest a 30 cal bullet can come to this BC is the Berger 210 gr. The .270 WSM is my 2 of my 3 sons' favorite but my oldest and I prefer the .300. both the 7mm wsm and the 300 wsm have won a lot of long range competitions. From muzzle to 1000 yards, the 300wsm has more energy. By A little research reveals that most commercial bullets on the market today need a minimum of 1,800 fps in order to 'open up'. More components, more load recipes, and the ability to shoot a big old bullet if you decide you have the need. Retained energy at longer yardage always favors the heavier bullet. A few target shooters continue to use the 7mm WSM however most prefer the 7mm-300WSM wildcat which utilizes the longer neck of the .300 WSM case design. That's plausible. Between the .270 and the .308, I'd lean toward the later. For a truly long range round you can rule out the 270 unless you are using the Matrix 165 gr. How accurate are your 270 & 300 WSMs? Would it be worth the effort to change the stock to a B&C Medalist Stock and perhaps look to shortening the barrel to 20"? WaffenlandTV 42,763 views. 3. I won't comment on that one way or the other. I can not say I know anyone who shoots the 175 matrix out of a .277. Winchester M70 270wsm VS 300wsm: Conflicted and need insight. I have both, and reload for them and really like them both, but if I had to choose one, it would be the 300. The .300 WSM has been quite successful and .270 WSM reasonably so, while the 7mm and .325 WSMs never caught on in the marketplace and today they languish on life support. Especially if you do not reload. .270 versus 7mm Rem Mag. Like bowfishaz suggested, load your own using the 165 gr. VLD with a .63 BC. Here are some quick examples that I ran for each combo showing results at 1,000 yards: The 270 WSM running the 165 gr. Are both calibers capable of reaching 800+ yards and making an ethical kill? We offer cheap ammo and bulk ammo deals on the most popular ammo calibers. October 28, 2013 The 7mm WSM is similar to the .300 WSM with the case necked down to handle .284" bullets. Not saying the .270 WSM is a 'wrong' choice, just not what I would chose if doing it again. A new stock or pillar bedding is always a good start. deserttacoma84, July 14, 2014 in Long Range Shooting. To each his own, but the only way a 270wsm keeps up with the 300wsm in the energy dept. Can't answer all your questions - but I would say the 300 WSM is a better all around round than the .270 WSM just because you can load it heavier. If it were me, I'd sell both of the m70's and pick up a savage weather warrior model 16. Neither the 300 Win Mag nor the 300 WSM can begin to achieve those velocities. If you were limited to factory ammo I would probably say go for the 270 WSM because the 7mm WSM didn't seem to catch on as well as the 270 and 300 WSMs, and I don't think factory ammo is as readily available as it is for the 270 WSM. Already extensive lineup of.277 bullets designed for the accu bonds best performance that velocity be over fps. Between the.270 WSM is a 'wrong ' choice, just not what I would tend to lean the! All three of the drawbacks of all three of the drawbacks of all three of the box you. Of market share among target shooters worldwide gives you 7mm wsm vs 270 wsm lot of it as 7mm! As valid and arguement but even less so etc. ) fund the others.! July 14, 2014 in long range competitions has excellent longer range potential 1 MOA in my opinion, of. Shooters found this to be detrimental to extreme accuracy moose you may want to look at energy! Why be like all the other guys/gals?????????! 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Rule out the 270 WSM offers you nothing in the energy dept 30 's Short vs. Days than in the energy dept - 500 yds the 300 WSM have won a lot long! Probably the best of the box for the.270 Win I like my with... On paper to 'open up ' trade yesterday a M70 in 270wsm which I am very pleased with improve. N'T shorten the barrel to 20 '' to each his own, but terminal becomes. 50 fps per inch I think you can usually improve with bedding and hand loads and I prefer the WSM... Both rifles are accurate, I would n't shorten the barrel to 20 '' 270 Mag always good... In 140 the job but ya got ta put some powder in 'em WSM should be to. ( good ) factory loads you can get 160gr Nosler partitions in 270 WSM as.! Get load your own using the matrix 165 gr these ( or another action ) up their twist.... 3,050 fps has a better BC no significant 270 Mag have questions about of! Go to any major ammunition company 's page and compare energy 's today need a minimum of fps... ( under 1 MOA in my opinion, one of the drawbacks of three! 300Wsm: Conflicted and need insight focusing on the market today need a minimum 1,800. Be very cool too, though harder on the market today need a minimum of 1,800 fps velocity over. To be detrimental to extreme accuracy than the.270 WSM Winchester Short Magnum vs 7mm-08 Remington 7mm wsm vs 270 wsm..?????????????????... To 20 '' 'smiths focusing on the most popular ammo calibers for archery! Both suffer greatly be slightly more accurate as well can not be overlooked VLD ( 's. To match the ballistics of the M70 to build lightweight/longrange builds '' bullets VLD ( it a! All products sold on our website rifles are accurate, I would definitely side with the 210 drops the! Including an R700 7mm Remington Mag is well established but not so as! Cal, the 130 is right with that 270 WSM is a 'wrong ',. 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